Just Two Good Old Boys

014 Just Two Good Old Boys

February 01, 2023 Gene Naftulyev Season 2023 Episode 14
014 Just Two Good Old Boys
Just Two Good Old Boys
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Just Two Good Old Boys
014 Just Two Good Old Boys
Feb 01, 2023 Season 2023 Episode 14
Gene Naftulyev

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Just Two Good Old Boys
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Support the Show.

Read Ben's blog and see product links at namedben.com
Check out Gene's other podcasts -
podcast.sirgene.com and unrelenting.show
If you have comments drop at
Email: gene@sirgene.com Or dude@namedben.com
or on
X.com: @sirgeneTX @dudenamedbenTX
Can't donate? sub to Gene's GAMING youtube channel (even if you never watch!) Sub Here
Weekend Gaming Livestream atlasrandgaming onTwitch
StarCitizen referral code STAR-YJD6-DKF2
Get EMP protection for your car using our code sirgene

Gene:

How'd he been? How's it going?

Ben:

It's going well, Jean. It's gone well.

Gene:

Good. Well, I'm a little tired, but other than that, I

Ben:

You were just telling me why don't you tell everybody what you were just doing episode

Gene:

Yes. I was on a, a livestream with a guy, I can't remember his name, I'm so fucking tired. But a guy that was originally the one that brought all the, or assembled, I should say, all the info about Eliza Blue saying that it's very unlikely that she actually is what she claims to be.

Ben:

and what does she claim to be For those that don't know,

Gene:

yeah. Yeah. A a survivor. Trafficking and it kind of varies. Sometimes it's child trafficking, other times it's just trafficking. And sometimes

Ben:

Some form of sexual assault.

Gene:

self trafficking or it, what it's beginning to look like as people have uncovered more and more stuff is that she just worked as a prostitute for a while.

Ben:

Well, and that could be trafficking, depending, depending on what happened. But also I don't think we should classify willing participation as trafficking.

Gene:

Yep. And and neither is like, that's my only option. Excuse trafficking either, which is, if you remember, that's what Jack what the hell's his last name? Murphy.

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

AKA Jack Goldstein. The that was the excuse he gave eventually was like, well, lost my job. Couldn't couldn't make money in the other way. So I had to do cam work where I talk about how awesome would be to have guys put their cock in my ass and then doing it with a dildo on camera. I was like, mm. Is that really the last and only option that you had? I mean,

Ben:

Well, I mean, depending on your talent level, yes, it may

Gene:

Not really. I mean, the Walmart can always use a greeter, you know, there's a lot of things, a lot, a lot of

Ben:

There, there are a lot of stages in life that would have to hit before I'd ever

Gene:

Yeah. I mean, you know, Uber's got plenty of openings pretty much in any kind of economy. Now, if you wanna say, well, I kinda am a bit of an exhibitionist and I wanna make good money. Six figures not having to leave my house.

Ben:

Yeah, but is a male gonna, that that's not gonna happen for, I mean,

Gene:

Well, his

Ben:

only or

Gene:

mean, it was, it, it was the, it was a com. It wasn't like he was our only fans. He was, he and his wife were a couple on only fans, but the stuff that they were doing and the stuff coming out of his mouth was very bisexual.

Ben:

I am very contradictory. I understand, but my point is, even a couple, the average, the average account is not going to make six figures there at

Gene:

Well, I mean, you could see money coming in. I think they were making six figures, but, but even.

Ben:

the top tier

Gene:

Well, maybe he's talented, but I mean, that's the thing. It's like, you know, play to your strengths then don't, why, why are you going off and then pretending you didn't do any of this shit to be on Tim Cast talking about how real men act this way and you're, you know, men's advocate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, talk about how, hey, I can be a conservative porn star. That would be, you know, maybe some people wouldn't like it, but at least that would be honest.

Ben:

yeah. Or, Hey, I tried this and had to come to Jesus moment and change my life. Whatever,

Gene:

Yeah. Which would be a lie. But yeah, you could still you could say that because he was still doing porn while he was appearing on Tim Cast.

Ben:

Oh, I, I thought this was an in the past sort

Gene:

No, no, no, no, no timeline on that. And I was actually one of the guys that, that did the, the background work to get

Ben:

So you were a fan. You were sitting there watching him.

Gene:

Well, I mean, for research purposes you have to watch it. It's not really an option, you know, it's like, I've, I've seen way more, way more Eliza Blue at this point than I care to have ever seen. But yeah, so that was an interesting thing. You know, I just kinda digging in some of this stuff and so the guy produced a movie called open Secret back about five years ago, which was a movie about the pedophilia, pedophilia trade

Ben:

know,

Gene:

and how it's just out in the open and happening and, you know, on Twitter and Facebook and everything.

Ben:

people forget about Boystown and how public that was.

Gene:

Oh yeah, yeah, So. You know, I guess he's the guy that originally Def Fango, who's the guy I interviewed on, on my last podcast. And then I'm gonna be hopefully in the next week or so interviewing a, an RT reporter that did a story on this as well.

Ben:

So Eliza Blue was not trafficked, is what you're saying?

Gene:

I'm saying you never know, but it's very inconsistent, the stuff that she says according to people that really kinda live in that world.

Ben:

Hmm.

Gene:

Like one of the things this guy mentioned is and I guess we're talking about lines of blue right off the get go, but and for some people are like, oh my God, who gives us shit? Why are you people talking about it? No one cares. It's like internet drama that no one asks. And I get that. So we won't talk very long about it. It just, this literally was a topic last night, but yeah, it was she has been out very publicly in a number of music videos, like all low budget stuff. She's had a bunch of photos taken. I mean, she is, I what I would say off just a, anybody that, that had that many photos and videos of themselves wearing very little clothes is clearly an exhibitionist. Now, can you have been traffic and be an exhibitionist? Sure. It's highly statistically unlikely though, because people that have been trafficked tend to. Extremely private and introverted and not having anything publicly visible of themselves. And the fact that she was doing all of this stuff that was very risque, timeline wise after she was trafficked is also very inconsistent. You could, she, like if she had, was pointing her finger saying, yeah, you know, I was in this music video and taking my clothes off under duress.

Ben:

Or that, that's how I was groomed into this.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben:

You know, it, it is possible that, so I, I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here because it is possible that she was groomed into something and, you know, part of the process there is getting someone to like the attention and it is possible that she is somewhat struggling with still wanting set attention.

Gene:

Oh, she definitely wants attention right now.

Ben:

Oh, yeah, yeah. I, but I'm, I'm just saying people, people get into this place where they, someone gives them X amount of attention. They start being willing to do things that they normally probably wouldn't. They get more attention for it. You know, it's that serotonin feedback loop there that gets'em into it.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

Or

Gene:

But at what point do we stop calling that grooming or trafficking?

Ben:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be

Gene:

because may, maybe I have a different, maybe I have a different definition here, but here's what I think those two things. So, grooming to me is somebody who's an authority figure, an adult, usually with a child telling the child information that is contrary to mainstream information in order to get the child to follow a certain path of action in this context, usually leaning towards a certain comfort level with nudity and or sexual intercourse at a pubescent age or pre-pubescent. For some people, it, it is not a 22 year old being told, Hey, if you wanna get more money, take more clothes off. That's not grooming, that's business. What do you think?

Ben:

I, I don't think that it has to be a kid to be grooming.

Gene:

Okay. Yeah. I, I think you, it does, I I don't think you can groom somebody who's over 18. I mean, you can tell'em things, but they're an adult at that

Ben:

Yeah. Okay. So you're saying that because you're an adult, you shouldn't fall prey to psychological manipulation?

Gene:

I think life is psychological manipulation

Ben:

absolutely

Gene:

and people make bad choices all the

Ben:

correct. And there are

Gene:

And grooming, blaming.

Ben:

out there for any age.

Gene:

Yeah. I don't, I don't agree with that at all. I think that that calling bad choices, grooming, it diminishes the real problem with grooming. In my definition of it. If grooming is an all ages thing, then. Really, how, why should we even bother talking about grooming in the context of teachers teaching kids how to

Ben:

Because it's even more egregious.

Gene:

Eh, but it loses,

Ben:

is manipulating someone into doing

Gene:

grooming. That's actual grooming. When you use the word grooming for a 40 year old, getting a bad decision about going on, only fans with his wife and then showing photos of sticking a dildo in his ass. No, I'm, I'm not, I'm not gonna agree with that because I don't think Jack Murphy was groomed

Ben:

I didn't say that he was, and that's

Gene:

well, but there's an argument for it using the definition of old ages.

Ben:

How

Gene:

do you know that somebody didn't tell him, Jack, this is, this is your best way

Ben:

but that's not even alleged at this point. You're, that's a red herring and not part of the conversation.

Gene:

it's not a red herring cuz we're talking about definitions. Definitions are not actual things. So I'm saying that if you expand grooming to all ages, Then you're, you're washing

Ben:

expansion. I think it's the general definition of the term grooming. That grooming is pushing someone slowly, psychologically changing their perception so that they are okay with doing something that they otherwise

Gene:

It's literally what every boss

Ben:

is the definition of a personal movement of your own Overton window. That's all it is.

Gene:

It is literally what every boss does at work. That's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to motivate your employees to do better. That's grooming is motivating.

Ben:

sure. It's the, the, the problem comes in when it is used to abuse someone. So people get groomed all the time. People are quote unquote groomed. It's normal psychological behavior to say, Hey, this is the behavior I want from someone, therefore I'm going to reward them and I'm gonna get more of that behavior. Absolutely. That is normal. The term grooming refers to a subset of that where people are doing something for a bad or nefarious purpose.

Gene:

All right. So grooming in your mind has nothing to do with kids, but it has to do with the rationale for why somebody is modifying behavior.

Ben:

So I think people can be groomed of all ages. I think that it definitely has to do with kids, and I think the kids are the most egregious example of it,

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

and the ones that need the most protection because they have the least psychological defenses against.

Gene:

Yeah. Okay.

Ben:

I, I think we're paying a semantic game. That doesn't really matter. We, neither one of us thinks that the abuse of a child is a good thing.

Gene:

Well, no, obviously not, obviously not. But you know, grooming is a fairly new, that definition of grooming is fairly new. That was not, that's not a traditional definition of grooming. But if, if, if grooming isn't about kids, I'm gonna stop using the word grooming altogether because there I don't believe it's screwing.

Ben:

Okay

Gene:

so, and then the second part of that is for her on, on timeline, which seems extremely inconsistent for her because it seems like the times when she said she was trafficked were also times when she was doing things like making music videos, and And yet she's not pointing to, I was trafficked into being in a music video and not pointing a finger at anything specific that she did during that timeframe. And then when, when asked further about it being more hazy, more what's the word?

Ben:

Vague.

Gene:

yeah, more vague, more obtuse. About what, like when exactly did this specific event of trafficking occur that you're referring to? So now another thing is in one of the videos which I'm kind of surprised, but that this is even exists, but she was talking to a musician chick what was her name? No, I can't remember. But a chick who, a musician. A female musician who is known for having been a prostitute. I can't remember her name. But it's somebody famous. I'm sure that people listening will know. No, it's, it's a white chick or Latino, maybe. Not a black chick, but pink, pink, that's what it was. She was talking to Pink in a video. Oh, yeah. Well-known fact. And she,

Ben:

but Sure.

Gene:

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, it, you know, now that I've heard it, it's a well-known fact. So, so apparently pink had referred to herself as being trafficked as well, and they're talking and I guess Eliza's, you know, saying, Hey, it's great. You've, you've been bringing this issue to the. The, this topic to people's attention and car. And pink says, now, to be fair, I just wanna say, you know, I've, I was a prostitute and I had a pimp, and later I realized that I guess that means that I was trafficked and Eliza Blue saying, yeah, well, you know, we, we have, we, we didn't have the right terminology for it, and we do now. So it seems like, based on a video, that Eliza's definition of trafficked is literally, I had a pimp. Now, if you had a pimp, does that mean you were trafficked or, or could that mean that you were a prostitute selling yourself? And then some of the other girls said, oh, hey, you can't be here unless you're working for Mr. Big. And then you went and talked to him and you started working for him, or you were a prostitute, you got slapped around. You didn't like that. So you went and found the pimp for security and you started working for a pimp.

Ben:

So what it sounds like to me is someone who wants to play the victim and not accept not accept responsibility for their own poor choices, and using the terminology of, oh, I was trafficked in as a way to ameliorate their own identity issues.

Gene:

Yeah. And, and now, I mean, this thing is just taken on life its own because a lot of people are getting banned off Twitter and tweets are being deleted for people, which is the part that's now the bigger story is that of the people that have been banned from Twitter, and some of whom simply for mentioning her name they, they get a, a band from Twitter, and then people are noticing that in Twitter stats in an account that they can't log into, there are tweets that are being deleted.

Ben:

I thought Elon Musk fix fixed all this. Wasn't he supposed to be the savior of

Gene:

and this is the problem is that Eliza Blue is a friend of Elon Musk.

Ben:

Eh.

Gene:

So the new Twitter man, this is starting to become a meme is the, you know, new Twitter, worse than the old Twitter because in the old Twitter only conservatives were getting banned in the new Twitter complete shills that happened to be friends of Musk are getting people banned. And it's, it's a I mean, I don't think it's worse, but it's certainly not very different. The,

Ben:

instead of a cabal of leftists making up the rules, you have one single man making up the rules.

Gene:

But I don't even think it's one single man. I think it's, I don't think Elon's in there banning people. I think Elon basically has a list of friends that is available to Twitter that says, these people you don't fuck with.

Ben:

Well, I mean, it could be simply as a cult of personality. People know that they're associated and don't wanna piss

Gene:

you don't wanna lose your Yeah. He's laid off 80% of the company. Right. So you don't want to be in the 81st percentile because you, because you got rid of his buddy. Or let somebody stay on who is attacking his buddy. Yeah. And that could be not in directed as well. You're absolutely right.

Ben:

Yeah. Like I'm saying it, you know, could be purely just that cult of personality.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

So,

Gene:

But either way it's, it is the new drama event like Crowders are already yesterday's news at.

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

it's things have moved on.

Ben:

Man that I, I, I, I still am of two minds of on Crowder, but we won't go into that too much cuz I'm tired of hearing about it and talking about it, but you

Gene:

uh, yeah, mark. Mark Dice really expressed my view very well, I think as

Ben:

yeah, yeah. And I watched part of the Mark die stuff

Gene:

mm-hmm.

Ben:

I, I think there's some and fucking going on there that he's nitpicking on a couple little things, but I, I think

Gene:

wasn't

Ben:

absolutely he was, that's the problem is no one's right in this situation. So, anyway, I, you know, it, it, what it comes down to is none of this should have been public.

Gene:

And that's whose

Ben:

And it's, it's crappy of people to make this as public and as big of a deal as all of this

Gene:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's also interesting for viewers, so everybody's getting great ratings out of

Ben:

everybody loves drama. I got it. I, I don't, I, I have a, I have enough personal strife, I don't need to watch somebody else's.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

Yeah. So I'm I'm going to Germany at the end of the month.

Gene:

Oh, fun times.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

That's still cold there, I think, right? Yeah.

Ben:

I mean, it'll average looking up the averages. It doesn't look too, too bad,

Gene:

so it'll be what, in the thirties,

Ben:

colder than here, that's for sure.

Gene:

Everything's cold here, but I think February and Germany is still freezing weather. Okay.

Ben:

I, not my particular choice, but it it'll be interesting. I'll be going into I'll be attending a European manufacturing conference, so definitely be interesting to hear the talk, especially considering,

Gene:

There is no manufacturing in Europe. Yeah.

Ben:

dude. You know, it's really astonishing how fast companies are pulling out of Germany right now. What's the big petrochem company in Germany? I'm blanking on the name right now.

Gene:

Which one's the German one?

Ben:

Oh man, I'm

Gene:

I'm not sure.

Ben:

HSB something like, uh hmm. It, it's gonna just bug the crap outta me that I can't remember this. Anyway, they're, they're moving operations to Louisiana. So

Gene:

I think a lot of companies are in the process of doing that.

Ben:

anyway, part part of what I've sent you on some of the Peter Han's recent talks that are interesting and updates to his book, he's talking about some of this, and part of what he's pointing out is that Germany's done,

Gene:

B A

Ben:

is an opinion. I'm sorry,

Gene:

B A S F,

Ben:

b A s f. There you

Gene:

yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ben:

So B A S F is literally moving a ton of their operations over to Louisiana in order to hopefully ship, step back. Here's the thing about,

Gene:

employees.

Ben:

yeah. Massive company.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

about The German infrastructure that I didn't realize that appears to be very true is that they, their entire petrochemical comp composition is based off of getting oil and natural gas from Russia that is now gone. They are, you know, the marginal supplier sets the rate for energy costs in any market, and as a result, you know, the what is available is going for energy production and not into the petrochem industry. And the petrochem industry is the thing that feeds into aerospace and automotive. So it's this lynch pin, it's the base lynch pin that when pulled, causes the entire German manufacturing setup to kind of collapse.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the Germany Mega Tesla factory shut down at this point, which is gotta be costing Musk a lot of money.

Ben:

Yep.

Gene:

Because in Germany, you're still paying salaries

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

until you literally go bankrupt. You will keep paying salaries. You don't ever stop paying salaries and you can't lay people off.

Ben:

Really?

Gene:

Yeah. Once they worked for you for a year. The German what was, it's the God, I'm forgetting the word, but basically the, the rules around employees in Germany are insanely socialist.

Ben:

Hmm hmm.

Gene:

Somebody has to literally have embezzled money from you to be able to fire them.

Ben:

Well, damn,

Gene:

Oh, it's, yeah. It's crazy, dude.

Ben:

yeah. So then how are they as productive of a society as they actually are?

Gene:

Well, productivity in Germany is based on the national ethic, so people in Germany, Historically, and who's to say this is gonna continue, but historically have been very much rule followers. They've, they

Ben:

You don't say,

Gene:

having, yeah, right. They prefer having, you know, hard discreet structures versus freeform, do your own thing. And mean, Germany is absolutely temperament wise perfect for socialism. Which, which is why in a lot of ways, socialism

Ben:

of originated there.

Gene:

well, it, it did originate kind of there. I mean a lot of it was a London as well,

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

But the, the idea,

Ben:

but yes.

Gene:

yeah, well, but you know, that's that's usually how it works since they, they leave to go somewhere else and then they bitch and moan for a long time.

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

But. Yeah, characteristically, like I've, I've had German employees working for me when I was in a multinational company. And, you know, they're, on the one hand there are some of the more reliable employees. On the other hand, the biggest amount of time wastage in my mind is trying to get them to change course. And it's, it's like, you know, it it, there, there's a pros and cons to the term type of German mentality. So I think the productivity has more to do with their lack of chaos. Like, for example, Italy is almost the polar opposite of that. In Italy there's less chance of somebody doing something the same way. Ever they're a lot more prone to going on random, you know, events like having strikes all the time. People are a lot more chaotic in their behavior. So Italy is not known for its industrial base as a result, I think.

Ben:

No, it's more of a cottage industry.

Gene:

but you also look at areas like in Italy that we really think are good, like food. Well, that takes a lot of randomness and creative effort to come up with stuff that tastes better and better. So I, I think everyone's got their pros and cons.

Ben:

yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm actually dealing with an employee right now. I'm walking into a situation where we're going to be monitoring. A plant OT and IT networks from a security standpoint. And the scoping for this project was absolutely asinine and wrong. I ended up traveling not last week, but week before to go, you know, walk down this facility, validates scope and really get my arms around something in a quick way. And this one guy is just insistent that, you know, we gotta stick to the scope, the scope, the scope, the scope. And it's like, dude, if we stick to that scope, we will not deliver. Good result for them. This could be you know, the, the company that owns this plant, well the company that operates this plant, they don't actually own, it operates around 500 others in North America. So it's one of those things where getting this right is kind of important and it, it's just astonishing to me how focused someone can be and how literally talking to his director who's sitting here saying, Hey, we've gotta change this. And on phone calls with the customer, bringing things up to try and challenge my changes of the scope. And it's like, that is not a smart move, man,

Gene:

Mm-hmm. So you, you've got a position that's opening up, huh?

Ben:

that if it keeps up, I mean, and the guy's sharp, he's seemingly good at what he does, but he just, I don't know. I, maybe I need to find out if he wrote the scope of this project, what, but whoever did it has some major fuck ups and in, from my point of view. And we can talk about monitoring philosophy or anything else. And, you know, there are different ways to do things for, you know, different situations. But, you know, part of the scope is that that the customer will provide an ES X I environment for this, em to be installed for whatever purpose. Well, they don't have a ES X I environment at the site, so we probably need to come up with a different plan anyway.

Gene:

Oh yeah. Well that's, that sounds like a positive thing in the scope because then it's not your fault.

Ben:

Cool. Do you want to stick to the scope and have a fight with the customer that you're wanting to get more work for? Or are you wanting to have a successful outcome that shows your flexibility in getting more work

Gene:

Yeah, exactly. Well, it depends. Do you wanna be German or not?

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

I think, I think that's a perfect example right there.

Ben:

Yeah, so anyway, trying to get that resolved is, I mean, I, I I, I, I was shocked at his how do I put this? I, I was very shocked by his response to me outlining and showing problems and saying, okay, this is what we need to do.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

Everybody else is, you know, on board. And it's I don't think I've ever had a employee. Try and on in front of third parties, subcontractors and a customer try and undermine me like that. Never had that happen before and kind of, kind of shocked me to be honest with you.

Gene:

Well well welcome to getting older

Ben:

Yeah. Well

Gene:

It's,

Ben:

Jean,

Gene:

so that's why you're going to Germany. Got it.

Ben:

What's new with you, man?

Gene:

Other than being awake for way too long I don't

Ben:

Well, you slept right?

Gene:

Well, I did sleep. Yeah. You mean obviously I slept, but I would've

Ben:

So you, you got at least, I mean, we didn't start recording till 10, so, geez. Even if you went to bed at three, you got to, you got a good six, seven hours.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah, it's a weekend. I'm trying to get my good 10,

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

anyway what else? Oh, did you see Kanye apparently is charged with stealing a purse?

Ben:

No, no, I did not,

Gene:

I just saw that pop up

Ben:

I did not see that.

Gene:

I didn't see anything beyond the headline. I didn't actually read the story, but I thought it was a little comical because the guy clearly is sick, like, not metaphorically, literally sick. He needs help. He, he has got a potentially a you know, cancer or something of the brain. He, something's going on there cuz this guy is not thinking clearly.

Ben:

Well, I, I'm not gonna do a diagnostic, but you know, he, I agree, tend to agree with you that he is behaving the way most people would consider to be irrational.

Gene:

Beyond irrational, I think. Yeah. Like crazy. Yeah. You know, how long are we willing to put up with his crazy antics simply because he's rich?

Ben:

Well, I mean, put up with how I,

Gene:

Well, I, I,

Ben:

I ignore him. I don't care.

Gene:

Well, yeah. Yeah. But I, I think I said this on the, the livestream I was on last night, is that I think we, we had briefly talked about him. I, I just, I, if this happened 30 years ago, he would be in a mental institution right now.

Ben:

okay.

Gene:

Because anybody that behaves the way he does is clearly in need of a psychological evaluation.

Ben:

Yeah, and the mental institutions were slightly overused ala you know, one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Gene:

But I think that's the problem is one flew over the Coco's Nest was a movie and it made a lot of people think, oh my God, this is actually reality. This is horrible. Let's shut'em all down.

Ben:

There was a lot of that. In reality, that's part of the problem.

Gene:

We don't

Ben:

we do. We

Gene:

it is just a fiction movie.

Ben:

No, no, no. It's not just about the fiction movie. It's about a lot of lots of stories of people who were quite frankly, institutionalized and abused for no good reason.

Gene:

Are those anecdotal stories? And we had some studies showing.

Ben:

Well, okay, so an extrajudicial process to incarcerate someone because of arbitrary viewpoints does not seem like a good idea to me.

Gene:

Well, it's not incarceration, it's a mental

Ben:

How is it not? Are you removing someone's will? Are they able to leave of at any time that they choose?

Gene:

Well, I mean, no, they're not able to leave at any time until they choose. But

Ben:

Am I free to go? Am I being detained?

Gene:

yeah, you're definitely being detained

Ben:

Okay. Then that is, might as well be incarceration.

Gene:

Yeah, I know.

Ben:

Mental institutions abuse their place and

Gene:

well, maybe then we need better mental institutions or maybe we just need to, you know, change how that's.

Ben:

or maybe we need to accept that there will be crazy people in the world who have issues and. You know, love'em. Try personally to resolve issues with them and let it go and not think, oh my God, that person's crazy. They need to be locked up because guess what? The way you and I talk sometimes and some of the theories that we have and everything else, someone could easily say that about us

Gene:

We can't say that about our theories. Our theories are perfectly rational.

Ben:

to you and I.

Gene:

Wow. Yes. So you, so

Ben:

The one, one could say that we are paranoid as hell because we think, you know, the government and everybody else is out to get us.

Gene:

is very different than stealing purses.

Ben:

okay,

Gene:

You remember when Manona writer

Ben:

should be arrested for stealing the purse and evaluated and go from there.

Gene:

Yeah. Well hopefully that's what's gonna happen. And then he'll be locked away for a long time. So,

Ben:

So I cost you some money this week.

Gene:

Oh yeah, I, I, I heard about that. That's good.

Ben:

Yeah. I bought bought some of your angry Russian prepper, ponchos,

Gene:

So, not the name of'em, but Yes, yes. You

Ben:

Yukon Trading Company.

Gene:

Yukon trading, yes. Company that has a long history of creating great products for,

Ben:

Yeah. I, I love how Darren brought up the you know, c s b buying thousands of'em to lose you money.

Gene:

I know, I know, right? Yeah. I don't, I don't see CSV or anybody buying thousands, but but I, I do have thousands for sale, so there is

Ben:

c sb, if you're listening,

Gene:

Mm-hmm. he doesn't listen to this show.

Ben:

Oh, he absolutely listens to this show, which is hilarious. But anyway.

Gene:

I, I gotta, I gotta push that amendment through with podcasting 2.0 to be able to have a band list included in the podcast RSS feed.

Ben:

Yeah. How are you

Gene:

feature. I don't understand how they haven't had it for a long time.

Ben:

again? How are you going to technically

Gene:

I'm gonna ban a b class of addresses.

Ben:

Okay.

Gene:

I should be able to do that. I own the property to this, right?

Ben:

I, I, I, I don't agree with you cuz I think that going through, and first of all, you know, I p V four is dying. Second of

Gene:

whatever. That's it. It's dying for the next 20 years. It's gonna be dying. Yes.

Ben:

longer than that. And it will be used internally at, you know, behind most, in most private networks. I P V four will be the standard. Perpetually. I mean, first of all, I P V six addresses not. And here's the thing, this is a difference. And this is something interesting, and it's a debate that came up a long time ago and that a lot of people don't understand. Every device was supposed to have a publicly ratable IP address.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

Everything was supposed to be publicly ratable. It was supposed to be put on there. And then we came up with Nat Network, just translation. And we, you know, put things behind firewalls and so on. Not everything needs to be publicly ratable.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

You know, my MO two, it does not need a publicly accessible address.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

and it's two fundamental philosophies. And here, here's the thing, the whole idea of internet of Things, which is likely going away anyway for other reasons, but It does. I don't want my ring doorbell directly on the internet. I want to, which I don't have one, but I would just say that I want to control its access.

Gene:

Well then you don't want it to ring doorbell, cuz that does not work without the internet.

Ben:

Yeah. I wouldn't have one that's neither here nor there, but yeah. Okay. For instance, my nas, my NAS doesn't need to contact anywhere. I will upload firmware updates to it when I see fit.

Gene:

Mm-hmm. I could see that.

Ben:

If I want access to the files on my nas, I will VPN into my house to get it.

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. And, and every device does have a unique identifier. It just doesn't have a route below on. So with Mac addresses are unique to devices. Of course you can spoof'em as well, but, um

Ben:

Well, the Yes Mac addresses are unique, but they're also layer two. Right.

Gene:

Yep.

Ben:

So the problem with Mac addresses is that they're not hierarchical. There is no way to do routing with a MAC address. It's a flatten network, right? This was the old I P X schema

Gene:

Yeah. It's table routing.

Ben:

There is no routing in layer layer two. There's just not.

Gene:

Right. But I mean, you could route two, layer two because it's just IDs on the table.

Ben:

So there's switching that is based off of ethernet. Frank, I mean, I can get real in the weeds on this one, Jean. I don't think we want to, but

Gene:

Yeah. It, it, but you're, you're talking about terminology. My point is simply, can you isolate something based on Mac addresses dancers? Yes, you could, but it's, that's not what it was designed for. That's not what it's meant for. And I P V six was supposed to add unique IP addresses. How many are in I P V six? Do you remember what the actual number is? What's the possible number of IP addresses?

Ben:

Oh God, it's a ton. It's billions.

Gene:

or something.

Ben:

Yeah, it's insane because it's however long the address is and it's you know, alpha numeric instead of just numeric.

Gene:

Right? So it's a shit ton enough for every person to have a shit ton of devices and all of them with their own address and all of'em be routed.

Ben:

Correct. It's billions. I can Google it for you real quick.

Gene:

Can you Google it? I can, I can neva it for you.

Ben:

Adam's got you using that, huh?

Gene:

hundred twenty eight bit. Oh, I didn't know he was using that.

Ben:

Yeah. He's a big proponent of.

Gene:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a Russian company, so I'm all for it.

Ben:

Is it a Russian company? It's founded by an ex Googler here in the United States. So,

Gene:

Sure. Okay. That is totally Russian.

Ben:

I mean, that's what's been said, but you know what do I know? Wow. I did not realize that I P V six was first proposed, the first RC on it was in 1995. Wow.

Gene:

Yeah. It's probably about right. I remember that.

Ben:

Wow. Anyway, it is 3.4 times 10 to the 38th addresses.

Gene:

10th to the 38th. There you go. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The yeah, that probably is about when I first heard, because I remember we were using Nat in, in like 94 and. there was a movement to fix that and have, get to a point where you don't have to use net because there's so many addresses that you don't need to pay for full C class or more if you need it. Or nearly as much. Cuz the, the original issue with routing that I remember was around money and then eventually other considerations came in. But the assigning of ranges and IP addresses, which was, I think it was technically free initially, but you know, a lot of companies gobbled up a lot of addresses.

Ben:

And, and still have you know, they're like control

Gene:

I think has a, a. B class Cisco got a B class. A whole bunch of companies got chunks of large chunks of IP addresses right off the get

Ben:

As, as if you were a company of any size early on, you got a huge chunk of addresses. Control system vendors to this day have a habit of using their publicly routable IP ranges in internal networks, which is just insane.

Gene:

Yeah.

Ben:

So for instance, Foxboro is notorious for using their 51 50 or their 151. So 1, 1 50, 1 51 addresses on the control system, actual controller networks, which should never be on the internet and ratable.

Gene:

Right, right. Now, to be fair play devils. I don't get to hear it. You could have. Public addresses behind a firewall and not route them.

Ben:

Sure. But why would you

Gene:

Yeah, I agree.

Ben:

It, it, it's one of those design questions. This should never be on the internet. Cool. Let's give it a publicly ratable IP address, but it should never be on the internet. Right. But let's make it so that it could be if we ever wanted to, but it should never be on the. You know, the, that, that's why there, the, the lack of reserve addresses. So the idea of private addressing doesn't exist in I P D six. And that is problematic for someone like me because in my world, there are devices that I do not want to ever be able to speak on the internet.

Gene:

But it's so much easier for the government to know exactly where everything is, when everything has a license plate.

Ben:

right? And yes, I can control that through firewalls and so on. But you know, I would like, so everything in my world is about defense and depth. So, and everything in my world is about trying to engineer things to be intrinsically safe and assuming that humans will make mistakes and trying to put as many controls and layers between the potential of human making, a mistake and a bad outcome, right.

Gene:

Yeah, we all know about the flood in your industry.

Ben:

The FUD in my industry, oh

Gene:

Hey man, I was in that industry for 15 years.

Ben:

The FUD in my industry.

Gene:

Uhhuh, And for people that don't know the acronym, it's fear, uncertainty, and Doubt.

Ben:

I, I, I, I don't think there's a lot of FUD in my industry, but Okay.

Gene:

FUD sells. It's the main way to move product.

Ben:

Mm-hmm. luckily I'm not selling any product

Gene:

Yeah. That's why you're, you're not embracing fud.

Ben:

anyway. Oh, man. Anyway, so the Peter Zhan has been putting out lots of

Gene:

Yeah. So what did you say about Germany? I, you sent me like an hour and a half video that I clearly did not have time to watch. So what do you say?

Ben:

And you send me like four of those a day.

Gene:

I send them to you more as examples of what I watched that day. Not so much as like homework.

Ben:

Well, it, it's not just what he said about Germany, it's what he also said about Russia that I thought you might take exception with, but just the,

Gene:

he said about Germany was I would agree with.

Ben:

I think you would agree with him on Germany. Yes. But the question on Russia is, you know, the, you know, Russians underestimated the Cian not the Permian, the Ukrainian war, you know, now they're slogging it out. And the point he makes is Russia is not backing down from this and we need to recognize that and. Anyway.

Gene:

I agree with that.

Ben:

Hi. His point though is he doesn't think Russia will stop until they reach certain geographic points that are historically defensible. And that would include some NATO countries. And that's why Ukraine is important, which I don't necessarily agree with. He basically thinks that Russia isn't going to stop until they've at least lost o over a million people that Russia doesn't know how to stop a

Gene:

with, I agree with that. Totally correct. Absolutely. This is why this is a suicide pact, and I think European countries are gonna realize it before the US does.

Ben:

So one

Gene:

weapons were always a suicide pact and now it's being tested.

Ben:

yeah, one of the things he pointed out about Germany in, in this Russia conflict is Russia has given Germany the ultimatum. You can either be modern or you can be Western. And so far they've chosen to be Western, which is somewhat astonish.

Gene:

I think I've been watching some of the some of the, I guess videos, you know, shows whatever from Russia and the, a lot of politicians there right now are, they've been given the biggest gifts that they've had in years with this Germany bringing tanks to Ukraine story

Ben:

Well, not just Germany, the US too.

Gene:

But I'm talking specifically about Germany though, because for the entirety of the socialist control of Russia communists, whatever you wanna call it, until the fall of the Soviet Union the, the historical, I don't know if celebration's quite the right word, but the use of World War II as a motivational instrument was extremely prevalent. The, the, I mean, kids in the 1980s were as familiar with World War II and what Germany did as probably Americans in the 1950s.

Ben:

Okay.

Gene:

Americans really, other than watching an occasional movie or two have forgotten about World War ii. The only people you see out celebrating on Memorial Day are people in their seventies and eighties. This country moved on and it moved

Ben:

that I agree with that, but.

Gene:

Oh, totally, dude. It, it's moved on because Vietnam happened and that was a, a huge refocusing of America and what the military here is in Russia that never happened in Russia. And really all of the Soviet Union, all of those countries world War II was being kept alive. And the memory of it, even to the third generation, passed that event. And right now, what Germany's doing is absolutely being used to rekindle that more and more support is coming from Russian people. Like the Putin's approval rating has gone up ever since Germany announced their shipping tanks. I don't know if anybody, zhan or anybody else calculated this effect. If I was the US I would've said no tanks from Germany, only tanks from other countries.

Ben:

Yeah.

Gene:

the last thing you want to do is play into your opponent's

Ben:

Propaganda.

Gene:

you know, or political strength, whatever you wanna call it.

Ben:

you're assuming that the people who are pulling me strings want to avoid war and collapse

Gene:

yeah. If I

Ben:

Zhan what I think he, I, what I think he is, is a, he's very read in, he's very intelligent. It's interesting that

Gene:

Well, yeah. He's Jewish.

Ben:

I don't know that, but, okay.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

How is he Jewish?

Gene:

A hundred percent Jewish

Ben:

How so?

Gene:

by birth What do you mean now?

Ben:

I, I, I mean, where, where are you finding that information? I mean, he's from Iowa or something like that.

Gene:

Yeah. What do you think? There's no Jews in I about what the hell kinda

Ben:

there's a lot less, yes, actually. And anyway, it's also interesting that he's gay because he does not come off as gay to me in his talks at all,

Gene:

no, no, no. He's, he's a very straight looking gay guy.

Ben:

Yeah. Anyway, so I, I think he's very read in and creating the excuse for the collapse that is being engineered. That's my take on it. And I just see the moves that are going on in Ukraine is very much in line with that. We're going to engineer a situation that then we can blame on someone else.

Gene:

Yeah. But I mean, do you really want to be blaming millions of deaths after a nuclear event on someone else, or do you wanna avoid.

Ben:

I would like to avoid it, but as far as the elites and so on,

Gene:

Yeah. Where do they think they're going to be? What city, where their elites do they think is not targeted?

Ben:

New Zealand where they're building all their, you know, doomsday bunkers and everything else,

Gene:

I'm pretty sure China's got that covered.

Ben:

I am pretty sure that no one. About New Zealand.

Gene:

Yeah. Maybe. I

Ben:

They're not a military target

Gene:

They're not, well, they're not a military target, but they're, they're annoying. That would be enough.

Ben:

Well,

Gene:

I don't know, man. It's hard to say. May maybe they, yeah, I guess, you know, I, I think it's a beautiful place. I think that certainly from a a country that has everything from the coast to the mountains, to the forest, to the plains and beaches, like they've got a miniature version of everything there. They, they have a shit government. But

Ben:

which is changing, but we'll see.

Gene:

Itself is good.

Ben:

so anyway, it was just interesting to see his take on and I think it's worth watching some of his updated stuff and paying attention to what is being said because I think, like I said, he is fairly well read in and it's something to not necessarily

Gene:

well, he used to work for the State Department too, so that was, well, he also used to work for the State Department.

Ben:

Yeah. And it and Langley. Yeah.

Gene:

Mm-hmm. I dunno about that, but definitely State Department.

Ben:

Oh, I, he definitely worked for Langley. He's mentioned a few things that are 100% Langley. Anyway, I, I think it's worth paying attention to him and deconstructing and, you know, seeing what is said, because I definitely think he's one of those useful mouth pieces that's out there. So,

Gene:

Yeah. Yeah. And I,

Ben:

he, he is the definition of project marking bird.

Gene:

I still don't understand what it is that convinces people that they can win a nuclear war. Like what changed in the last 30 years, even less than that, probably last 20 years, make all these politicians think that the nuclear war is winnable.

Ben:

and, you know, very much says basically we're gonna push Russia, that Russia can be pushed up until this point, and they're not gonna use nukes, and here's why. And

Gene:

and, and what is

Ben:

think they're playing a game of chicken more than anything.

Gene:

but what is the why? And here's why. So what's the why?

Ben:

Well, I don't agree with his why, but

Gene:

but what's his why?

Ben:

so he thinks Russia is in demographic collapse. Russia and China are both in demographic collapse, that they're terminal, Germany's terminal, that there's nothing they can do and that Russia is seeking to secure its borders while it still can.

Gene:

Mm-hmm.

Ben:

And the reason why Ukraine is important is because they would have to go to Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, and I'm forgetting the last country to in, to be able to sec Estonia. There you go. Oh, how do you know that? So on his list anyway, to secure their geographic borders and have a geography of success where they, and he's big on the term geography of success and the geography of success being the things that are required for the basis of an industrial society without

Gene:

need Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia for that. Those countries are the size of a small city.

Ben:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's talking about securing their borders where they are not easily able to be invaded because they then have mountain ranges and things and physical barriers in the way to prevent a ground assault.

Gene:

Yeah. Which is really strange because he's the guy that thinks America is king because of the Navy power and that China is absolutely fucked if the US. Opposes Chinese trade on the water.

Ben:

Mm-hmm.

Gene:

And I think this is right there an incorrect view because with the better relations between China and Russia, that is the longest border of any two countries in the world. How the hell probably Canada's close. But once you throw Alaska in there which of course eventually become part of Russia again, but once you look at all the possible ways to move product to Europe and Africa without needing to put it on the ship, which the US can't, incidentally, the US

Ben:

which by the way is

Gene:

depends on water.

Ben:

expensive. So you're talking about orders of mar magnitude expensive

Gene:

So you're saying trains are more expensive than than ships.

Ben:

Absolutely. Orders of magnitude more.

Gene:

Really? Okay. Well, I'm, I'm gonna defer to your knowledge on that.

Ben:

so he, here, here's what I would say. International shipping has enabled the trade of goods that never existed before. That is potentially changing, but let's let, let's just leave that aside because I don't know that the waters will return to piracy and, you know, the dangers of shipping ahah the 18 hundreds. I don't know that that is a supposition that he has made. Okay. That one I, I think is pure opinion, but let's leave that there and then just look at the Chinese economy and it being very much. Based off of consumerism and demand driven. Okay. When you look at the demographics and the collapsing populations around the world, including China, man, I, I don't see how China is sustainable, especially now that the Chinese government is coming out and saying that they over counted their population by over a hundred million, 75% of which were female, counted as female on there and happened since the one child policy. So therefore, you're missing a huge chunk of a generation. A ch China is an example where central planning and the one child policy and communism absolutely screwed themselves.

Gene:

I'm not doing that bad right now, dude.

Ben:

Okay.

Gene:

I mean, compare. Seriously, if you compare China today to China 30 years ago, they're doing infinitely better today than they were 30 years ago.

Ben:

Not from a having kids standpoint,

Gene:

Not from the standpoint, it's, that's tailor picked out of a million things to not make them look good. Sure. But from every other standpoint, they're doing extremely well.

Ben:

no. They're under a cult of personality. Mal

Gene:

that's not a that's not not

Ben:

has consolidated more power unto himself than any other leader in world history.

Gene:

That's called a stable government, unlike what we have in this country.

Ben:

Yes, that is a stable government that if he is right 100% of the time, fine, but if he is not,

Gene:

How

Ben:

with any centralized amount of power is that you require them to be right all the time.

Gene:

now? You just require'em to be right more frequently than the next guy.